Embracing Uncertainty & Radical Curiosity with Leo Babauta

What Leo learned about learning, his fun debate with Tim Ferriss on abandoning goal setting and more...

This is a quick note to mention that episode #3 of the Curious Humans podcast is live, enjoy!

🌴Leo Babauta is the prolific writer of Zen Habits who joined me from the distant island of Guam 7,400 miles away.

🎧Listen to our conversation in full on SpotifyCastro or iTunes

Listen on iTunes


"When you’re feeling fear, instead of turning away from it or trying to escape/avoid it … try turning towards it. Actually allow yourself to feel the fear. We don’t often want to feel it, but we have a greater capacity to feel fear than we give ourselves credit for."

– Leo Babauta


In this wide-ranging conversation we covered…


🧘‍♂️ The incredible Zen Habits origin story—his path from being in debt, overweight, a smoker and feeling miserable to escaping debt, gaining a following of over a million readers, publishing books on habit-change, finding joy and even running an ultra-marathon!

💪 How to develop 'radical curiosity' and dive inwards even when you don't like what you're seeing; how to ‘hold the pose’ when you're entire body wants to shut down and run.

👨‍🎓 How he unschooled and de-programmed his kids to facilitate their own natural state of curiosity.

🚀 Leo's compelling case for why a fully-optimised life would actually suck and risks being the most controlled boring thing possible.

🤼 What he's learned about learning and a fun debate with Tim Ferriss on the idea of abandoning goals.

❓Listener Question // “How do you feel about the balance between achievement and appreciation?” Share your thoughts here in the comment thread.


📝 Read the full transcript here over on Medium.

⭐If you enjoyed this conversation (or either of the previous episodes with Karina and David) taking 30 seconds to leave a rating on iTunes would be much appreciated (and huge thanks to everyone has reviewed it so far!)